A monk meta QQ thread

[JDRyder]

Edit:Rhaaa, they moved it to the monk forum :/ No one will read it here :'(



I've been playing monk pretty much since the game came out in both Pve and Pvp areas, and (to me anyway) its always had the same problem, lack of multiple builds at any given time.

Over the last 2-3 years there hasn't really been any real changes to monks, we've just been using the same HB/Woh builds and recently UA, which is basically HB. Its very rare to find monks using elites other than these 3 in pve and usually its not a good thing if they don't have them, imo its getting kinda old.

When it comes to people that like playing DPS classes, theres at least a few different classes they can pick from to play the game in different ways. Where as monks are trapped playing the same 3 builds with minor changes. I'd like to see this change.

Imo monks should have more viable skills to choose from when making their builds. I think a lot of lesser used or not at all used skills should be buffed or reworked to allow for more variety of monks to help keep the profession fresher, and maybe even encourage more people to play it

For some examples of what I'd like to see (keep in mind these are for Pve, I've not GvGed in awhile so I cant comment to much on what needs to be done there)

Boon Prot made viable next to (not over) HB/UA/WoH. This build was a lot of fun to play to me, and it came in a good number of variety as well. Imo it should be buffed a little to make it viable

Prot monks made more attractive in Pve. As I've said, I've been playing for awhile, and I like Prot monk, but I feel they should have a few small buffs here and there to make them more popular amongst Pve players

Skills that have never really been good for monks reworked or buffed to be made viable (eg Martyr, Mark of Protection, ect) Though every class has skills like these, monk is really the only healing profession, so to keep the game fresh for healers, monks should have more variety imo.

Nerf ERway, nuff said.

[Cuilan]

In PvE, I don't really have much faith in monks I don't know very well. The "monks" I do know well don't use monks, they use elementalists. That pretty much sums up the thread.

[FlyMoto]

Prot monks made more attractive in Pve. As I've said, I've been playing for awhile, and I like Prot monk, but I feel they should have a few small buffs here and there to make them more popular amongst Pve players

The reason why prot monks aren't popular in PvE is people want mindless red-bar-goes-up and/or mindless use of energy (ER). I know its me (prot monk) + heal monk in a team, I'll be doing most of the work saving people (although, he's not gonna feel useless as he'll have used up all of his energy in the first 10 seconds blindly spamming on people at 90% health...). Prot monks are still much, much more powerful than heal in GW... as long as they are used right.

[upier]

[JDRyder]

Originally Posted by FlyMoto

The reason why prot monks aren't popular in PvE is people want mindless red-bar-goes-up and/or mindless use of energy (ER). I know its me (prot monk) + heal monk in a team, I'll be doing most of the work saving people (although, he's not gonna feel useless as he'll have used up all of his energy in the first 10 seconds blindly spamming on people at 90% health...). Prot monks are still much, much more powerful than heal in GW... as long as they are used right.

I'm also a prot heavy monk, but tbh, other than SoA, PS, dismiss and Aegis, theres really not much thats actually useful on the prot line. Keep in mind, this is coming from a prot heavy monk, till the last year or so the only heals you'd see on my bar were Pat spirit and Woh, and hell I'd even be a ZB with RoF more often. but when it comes to whats best, you really don't need many prots for Pve, and you can even get by with out them, you cant however get by without heals.

I'd like to see prot monk + heal monk (or even dual hybrids) make a clear and wanted difference in party survivability rather than 2 HB/UA monks. Maybe if they made UA only effect prot and divine, or rework it a little.

For example

Unyielding Aura, Enchantment, for 30 secs, your Prot and divine enchantments last for 25% longer, and Prot and divine skills heal for 25% more, when UA ends, a random ally is rezed.

I feel this would also be a help in general to monk, because UA to me is clearly a little OP that supports bad monking with fast rezing

[Ariena Najea]

I find Prot bars significantly more effective for the following reasons:

• AI rarely changes targets, so Guardian/Shield of Absorption work wonders
• Long Aegis (11s base)
• Spirit Bond > Protective Spirit for lots of HM areas
• Dismiss Condition still heals

I usually bring Blessed Aura + Spell Breaker when I am a designated Prot Monk in a backline (usually for Urgoz, Deep, etc), and bring ZB when going alone. In hex heavy areas I bring PnH though, and condition overload areas typically RC.

As far as I'm concerned, red-barring is unreliable and stupid without a prot monk. Why heal damage when you don't have to take it in the first place.

Lastly, there are lots of useful Monk Elites:
PnH
Spell Breaker
Life Barrier (lol bonding)
RC
ZB
RoJ (generally for pure Smiter builds...)
SoJ (useful on hybrid bars to mitigate damage further)

Lots of options here for good builds.

[Mikkelet]

Yea, it's getting kinda old running WoH/PnH all the time in PvP. The problem with monk is that, when a skill is buffed, it is quickly tested. If it's better than the previous choices, ppl will use that, but if it's not, it's useless. There's only one way to heal, but thousands of way to do damage - and that's why damaging professions have more builds than monks.

[End]

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

Lastly, there are lots of useful Monk Elites:
PnH
Spell Breaker
Life Barrier (lol bonding)
RC
ZB
RoJ (generally for pure Smiter builds...)
SoJ (useful on hybrid bars to mitigate damage further)

While I don't totally agree that all of them are Great skills they all are usable in their own way...if your in a party work it out with the part if your h/hing run what ya want... add onto that list the normal...o and my friend's been having fun with assassin's promise on a hybrid build...yeah I lol'd at him to...but when you realize how he's using sins promise....it's actually quite amusing seeing him solo chain Aegis and heal and yeah...just fun options

Truthfully you have more options then Ele's in hard mode...So quit QQing about ER without first QQing about lack of any other reasonable elite for eles besides AP with wards...


sure Ele's can out heal...and most likely out prot you xD
but you can out damage them in hard mode xD

[FlyMoto]

The "right use" means running a bunch of completely sub-par players in the rest of the slots?

No, right use means watching retarded AI run after the same target and preprotting. This is a rather hard concept for people who watch red bars and spam HB boosted heals. Doing this means as long as the rest of the players, sub par or not, need just to kill quickly.

Originally Posted by JDRyder

I'm also a prot heavy monk, but tbh, other than SoA, PS, dismiss and Aegis, theres really not much thats actually useful on the prot line. Keep in mind, this is coming from a prot heavy monk, till the last year or so the only heals you'd see on my bar were Pat spirit and Woh, and hell I'd even be a ZB with RoF more often. but when it comes to whats best, you really don't need many prots for Pve, and you can even get by with out them, you cant however get by without heals.

I'd like to see prot monk + heal monk (or even dual hybrids) make a clear and wanted difference in party survivability rather than 2 HB/UA monks. Maybe if they made UA only effect prot and divine, or rework it a little.

Dismiss + ZB can handle a lot of the healing you need. I know I've personally done pugs where we start with a 2 monk base (me prot, other heal) and the other monk drops and we still complete the mission with no real problems. People forget how powerful monks can be because people come up with oversimplified builds to make you not need to get much better so you can get through.

A bar like:
Guardian
Dismiss
ZB
SoA
PS
Aegis
E-Management of choice
Res (which I only grudgingly take because all of PvE players seem to think the monks/healers and only the monks/healers should have res)

Can easily handle a huge portion of the game. Some changes might need to be made for hex heavy or condition heavy areas, and team considerations (which, quite honestly, ST Defensive Rit makes Prot monk virtually unnecessary by having team wide SH+PS permanent).

Admittedly part of the problem with the lack of respect for prot is the power creep in PvE abilities making passive defense ridiculously powerful. This is just a problem with the power creep in the game that people have been talking about since factions came out.

[dasmitchies]

Give monks a machine gun to use from the backline. That will stop the qq. Rit spirit spam works better now since it is a brainless prot.

[upier]

[JDRyder]

Originally Posted by End

sure Ele's can out heal...and most likely out prot you xD
but you can out damage them in hard mode xD

Totally agree with this, this is a big reason why I think the game needs a huge rebalanced (including Pve skills) to get the game back on track where monks heal, eles do damage, ect lol

[C.H.U.C.K.S]

After they buff skills that make monks more attractive, though in any team, minus UWSC monks are needed, they should buff Paragons to have more then 1 build? Or Dervish's who have none? Or how about Mesmers who can really only run VoR? But why stop there buff rangers so they have a meta too!

Get real..UA/HB/WOH are balanced why would you want to change them? For another role for a monk? Makes sense.

[Masmar]

Run prot with gift of health and Shield of deflection, or aura of faith, or RC, or ZB.

The mostly used healing elites are balanced, the rest need a small buff though

[Terrible Surgeon]

Make a rit healer. Stop monking, stop crying. Honestly IMO monks have a lot to choose from when it comes to healing. SoR is often overlooked now and so are other skills which are good.

[maxxfury]

Originally Posted by upier

If you want to use the monk to his full potential, then the rest of the team has to use sub-par builds. Because if you aren't running sup-par builds, then the monk just doesn't have a slot in the party.

Care to elaborate for me bro? not sure im quite grasping your point on this one, yano me...think im having a brain fart...

ya Saying that if you wanna use a monk your gonna be suboptimal? to which i agree except for a slot for a cleaner/apboon :P cos they do stuff the ER cant.
or....lol @jay's comprehension fail atm, may have to bug u in game./shy face

[Skyy High]

I think Upier is saying that if the rest of your party is as good as it can be for PvE, you'll have a full minion wall, 100% uptime SY! (with the possible addition of TNTF!), and the mob will be on their ass 90% of the time anyway from Earthshaker. A prot monk in this party would probably be superfluous, which is why players can get away with a red-bar pushing HP monk to mop up incidental damage on the party.

Now, I don't think that's really a fair thing to say, because *gasp* everyone can't be the best at the game. That's kinda contrary to the definition of "best", really. You will be monking for PUGs, or guild groups where people don't feel like and/or don't have the classes to run the absolute best team builds, and in those cases (which make up the vast majority of parties in PvE), the prot monk will be doing more to help the party than the redbar pusher.

[miriforst]

ehrm? few monks?
dunno but the statistic i found at the gw-characters (http://www.gwchars.de/)showed that there where more monks than even warriors and there is realy many monks, but there cant be enough of such a vital piece of art.

agreed on that they need to get more alternatives, but then do not ONLY buff skills but also nerf some of them a little (dont wanna find myself getting pwnt by any team with a monk no matter what skills he got, i know that you shouldnt think like i do since the monks gets extremely heavy pressure on them but i dont want them to be 100% invincible to most professions)

so buff the sad skills and nerf the godmode skills that can be used more or less inteligently

[JDRyder]

Originally Posted by miriforst

ehrm? few monks?
dunno but the statistic i found at the gw-characters (http://www.gwchars.de/)showed that there where more monks than even warriors and there is realy many monks, but there cant be enough of such a vital piece of art.)

Yet when you try pugging or finding a monk they're much harder to find over wars ect.

Originally Posted by Sierraa

Are you unable to drag other skills onto your bar or what? I have no problems running Aura of Faith and Healing Burst in GvG. Sometimes I even bring glimmer. If you're competent at monking you shouldn't have a problem gimping yourself with w/e elite you want to bring.

Yea, I have NP using other skills, matter of fact atm I'm doing SF Proh skills only with PnH as my elite, but the point of this thread is I'd like to see more diversity in monks. They're the only real healing class and they only have 2 builds that actually work well (I count UA and HB as one, seeing how their the same build for the most part)

Originally Posted by Skyy High

I think Upier is saying that if the rest of your party is as good as it can be for PvE, you'll have a full minion wall, 100% uptime SY! (with the possible addition of TNTF!), and the mob will be on their ass 90% of the time anyway from Earthshaker. A prot monk in this party would probably be superfluous, which is why players can get away with a red-bar pushing HP monk to mop up incidental damage on the party.

Now, I don't think that's really a fair thing to say, because *gasp* everyone can't be the best at the game. That's kinda contrary to the definition of "best", really. You will be monking for PUGs, or guild groups where people don't feel like and/or don't have the classes to run the absolute best team builds, and in those cases (which make up the vast majority of parties in PvE), the prot monk will be doing more to help the party than the redbar pusher.

Even in pugs though you don't really need prots, for the ZM ect anyway.

Originally Posted by C.H.U.C.K.S

After they buff skills that make monks more attractive,

Prot monk more attractive,

though in any team, minus UWSC monks are needed,

Yea UA monks are the only ones wanted I bet

they should buff Paragons to have more then 1 build?

Yep

Or Dervish's who have none?

yep

Or how about Mesmers who can really only run VoR?

Yep

But why stop there buff rangers so they have a meta too!

they have Barrage, Broad Head Arrow, Burning Arrow, Crippling Shot(in GvG), Glass Arrows, Heal as One, Incendiary Arrows, Magebane Shot, Melandru's Shot, Punishing Shot and Rampage as One

Get real..UA/HB/WOH are balanced why would you want to change them?

HB and UA are not balanced

For another role for a monk?

No for the same role, just a different way to play it.

Makes sense.

sure does

[miriforst]

Quote:
But why stop there buff rangers so they have a meta too!
they have Barrage, Broad Head Arrow, Burning Arrow, Crippling Shot(in GvG), Glass Arrows, Heal as One, Incendiary Arrows, Magebane Shot, Melandru's Shot, Punishing Shot and Rampage as One

and how many times are ppl looking for a ranger compared to a monk? XD

they got many builds, but that doesn't make them vital or extremely good (tho interrupt can and can not be fun in pvp (where they have the same def ranger build anyway (maybe switching out the elite)))

but i agree, more buffs to prot prayers in pve!

prot is more fun than simply spam heals that i use to do (since i'm no way pro or even close to experienced to monking) while i can be more strategic and active in protection prayers and feel i actually accomplish something when saving a lagging teammate from an aatxe or other hard hitting foe (and heres my smiley )